Will the Biden campaign take legal action to force transition process?

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This is a rush transcript from “Fox News Sunday” November 22, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.


The CDC advises American against traveling this Thanksgiving, as

coronavirus cases overwhelm hospitals across the country and the death toll




DISEASES:  Pause for a moment and do a determination of the risk-benefit

within your family group.

WALLACE (voice-over):  State and local governments tightening restrictions

on restaurants, businesses, and social gatherings at the start of the

nation’s busiest travel season.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I’m going to see my family Chicago and I’m so excited

to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I think people should stay home. It gets lonely out

there though.

WALLACE:  We’ll talk with Dr. Tom Inglesby, head of the Center for Health

Security, about how to keep yourself safe as we wait for COVID vaccines.

Then, President-elect Biden’s team expresses frustration over the delayed


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT:  We don’t have access to all the information

that we need to get from all the various agencies.

WALLACE:  We’ll ask Kate Bedingfield, senior advisor to the Biden

transition, how the delay will affect his ability to lead on day one.

Plus —


WALLACE:  We’ll ask our Sunday panel about President Trump’s continuing bid

to reverse the 2020 election. What are his chances?

And —


priest before I thought about becoming Catholic.

WALLACE:  The archbishop of Washington about to make history as the

nation’s first African-American cardinal.

All, right now, on “FOX News Sunday”.


WALLACE (on camera):  And hello again from FOX News in Washington.

This weekend, Americans are being urged to double down on the life-saving

measures such as social distancing and mask wearing as the death toll from

the coronavirus passes 250,000, and a record 195,000 new cases just on

Friday. The exploding numbers prompting the CDC to urge people not to

travel for Thanksgiving.

In a moment, we’ll discuss the latest spike and the good news about

vaccines with Dr. Tom Inglesby, one of the nation’s leading experts on

infectious disease.

But first, Mark Meredith reports on the tough choices Americans are facing

this holiday season.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  I’m a college student, so I don’t really have much of

a choice, but I think any unnecessary travel should be avoided.

MARK MEREDITH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):  Millions of Americans

weighing the risks of spending the holiday around the table with loved


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  We were kind of debating on what to do between getting

together with the whole family or just staying local.

MEREDITH:  The demand for testing high, lines long. Here in Washington,

National Park set to open tomorrow as a mega testing site.

The number of COVID patients in hospitals doubling in the past month and

setting records every day. Overwhelming health care systems and leaving

front-line workers frustrated and fatigued.

JAMIE BROWN, MICHIGAN NURSES ASSOCIATION:  The restrictions are absolutely

necessary right now. The pandemic is out of control.

MEREDITH:  The heightened measures include some 37 states mandating masks,

encouraging residents to stay home and restricting businesses.

In Oregon, it’s a two-week freeze. Philadelphia, a new ban on indoor dining

and in California a nighttime curfew taking effect overnight as cases there

hit 1 million and rising.


in the surge is breathtaking and unexpected.

MEREDITH:  Texas shattering its single day record this week with more than

12,000 new cases, but still resisting lockdowns.

GREG ABBOTT (R), TEXAS GOVERNOR:  There are plenty of tools in the

toolboxes of local authorities to achieve the results that are needed.

MEREDITH:  Meanwhile, a bipartisan group of governors in the Midwest where

cases are skyrocketing, urging folks to stick close to home to stop the


ANDY BESHEAR (D), KENTUCKY GOVERNOR:  No one wants Thanksgiving, which is

an amazing time, to become a super-spreader event.


WALLACE:  Many of those new restrictions are expected, at least for now, to

last two to four weeks.

We want to get the latest from Dr. Tom Inglesby, director of the Center for

Health Security at Johns Hopkins University.

Doctor, I want to start with some more numbers — put them up on the

screen. More than 83,000 people are now hospitalized in this country.

That’s a record high. Over 16,000 are in ICUs and more than 5,000 are on


Why are we seeing this new spike right now and how close are we to

overwhelming our health care system?


morning, Chris. Thanks for having me on your show.

We are seeing this new spike because of the gradual accumulation of choices

and policies over the last couple of months. This virus has the ability to

spread exponentially, meaning more and more rapidly if we let it, and

unlike the springtime, when the country really was acting kind of with

common purpose around March and April, at the start of this pandemic and

when the virus was located and comparatively fewer places, the epidemic now

is surging in almost every state in the country with the Midwest and the

Mountain West really being out really in front in terms of rapidly

accelerating numbers of cases.

So, it’s not — it’s not confined to a few places, it’s really spread

across the country. It’s not just in big cities but it’s in rural

locations, small towns. And so, that is adding up to record numbers of

hospitalizations and as you said, the pressure on hospitals is the highest

it’s been since the beginning of the pandemic, with about a thousand

hospitals reporting this week that they’re critically short on health care

workers or will be very soon, and that number will grow this week.

So it’s a very, very serious moment for the country in terms of this


WALLACE:  At least 37 states are now requiring people to wear masks in

public. But the debate over masks and partial or total closures, shutdowns,

is continuing.

Here is South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem.


GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R), SOUTH DAKOTA:  I’m not in favor of mandating mask

wearing. I don’t believe that I have the authority to mandate that and that

people can use their own personal responsibility to make a decision when it

comes to masks.


WALLACE:  What about the argument that government can recommend, but it

shouldn’t be ordering people what to do or not to do?

INGLESBY:  Well, we trust government to do things to keep us safe. So we

trust government to set speed limits in neighborhoods so we don’t drive too

fast and risk, you know, injuring or killing kids who were playing in the

street and neighborhood.

So I think that would be the analogy I would think of here. I think there

are some times when it’s really important for government to set the rules

and to ask people to follow them and I think this is one of those times. If

37 states can set mask mandates, then the set rest of the states can set

mask mandates as well, and they should.

WALLACE:  Let me ask you about another aspect of this particular debate.

New York City just shut down its public school system, forcing more than 1

million students to stay at home.

But there is some growing evidence that in fact schools are not major

spreaders of the disease.

Here is CDC director, Dr. Robert Redfield, this week.


DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR:  The truth is for kids K-12, one of the

safest places they can be from our perspective is to remain in school.


WALLACE:  Doctor, what’s the science? Are kids safer staying in school?

INGLESBY:  So, it does look like at the K-8 level of school, that kids are

both at — certainly at lower risk of serious disease and probably because

of the way school happens, smaller groups of kids, not mixing together, no

large assemblies, that they are safer than high schools or universities,

for example. We haven’t had reports of major outbreaks driving transmission

in communities.

But on the other hand, we are not systematically enough collecting data

around the country right now. And schools that have made mitigation

measures have been able to decrease classroom density, have been able to

have kids wear masks, and assemblies, change pickup and drop-off, those

schools we think are doing better and are creating safer environments, but

not all schools have been able to do that. Not all schools have the

resources to put mitigation measures in place.

So I do think it’s hard to have universal rules. I don’t think we can go

that far, but in places where they put mitigation procedures in place and

community transmission in that particular school district is relatively

low. I do think those are safer environments. The problem is that now we

are seeing transmission levels across the country that are higher than

they’ve ever been since the start of this pandemic.

So, we are kind of entering in uncharted territory in many places, which

have enormous rates of spread. So we haven’t seen those rates of spread in

other parts of the world, so we don’t really have those places to learn

from, and I think we have to be very cautious about making judgments about

safety in schools when the rate gets so high in communities.

WALLACE:  And then there is Thanksgiving. We are seeing already airports

with long lines of people waiting in line, going through security, getting

on planes.

Should people travel for Thanksgiving or not? And if they’re bound to

anyway, what can they do to minimize their risk?

INGLESBY:  So, I would recommend that people do not travel on Thanksgiving

for this particular holiday. I think if you look at the map of spread

across the country, you can see the risk. It’s very visible.

And moving through airports or travel hubs, I think that will increase

people’s risk, but even if they’re driving from point-to-point,

unfortunately, we don’t know if we’re infected when we walk into a

gathering. CDC came out with data this week that said more than 50 percent

of infections that are happening are caused by people with no symptoms. So

I think the message for everyone is you can’t assume that you don’t have

the virus and you can’t assume that the people who’s home you’re about to

enter don’t have the virus, at this point in our pandemic.

And so, we really should discourage traveling and kind of stick with our

nuclear families, the people that we live with. If you are going to travel

to someone else’s home for Thanksgiving, then if possible, you should spend

as much time outdoors when you’re together. In some places, that may be

possible with the weather, other places not.

People should be wearing masks indoors when they’re together and only

removing them when they’re eating. We should probably keep meals short and

spend more time with masks on. And the smaller the gatherings, the better.

But in general, I would recommend against it. I love being with my family

on Thanksgiving, but this year, we’re staying home, just our nuclear


WALLACE:  But, Dr. Scott Atlas, who is one of President Trump’s top COVID-

19 officials, gave very different advice this week. Take a look.



isolation is one of the unspoken tragedies of the elderly, who are now

being told, don’t see your family at Thanksgiving. For many people, this is

their final Thanksgiving, believe it or not. What are we doing here?


WALLACE:  Straight out, should people listen to Dr. Atlas or not?

INGLESBY:  You know, I don’t think so. I think there — there are a number

of officials from the U.S. government who have 30 years of experience

preparing for and responding to infectious disease outbreaks, including Dr.

Fauci, and I think their advice has been very clear. CDC’s advice is very

clear. CDC’s job is to try to prevent the spread of outbreaks.

I think — I don’t know Dr. Atlas, but his background is quite different,

and I think we should stick with the scientists who have led us through

past outbreaks.

WALLACE:  I’ve got two questions I want to squeeze in here, so I’m going to

need quick answers from you.

First of all, there is some good news, and that, of course, is the fact

that —


WALLACE:  — it looks like we have not one, but two vaccines as part of

Operation Warp Speed. They’re on the way. Pfizer on Friday applied for

emergency use authorization.

Assuming that they’re approved by the FDA, how confident should Americans

be about taking these vaccines?

INGLESBY:  Yeah. I wouldn’t call this good news. I would call this great

good news. It’s fantastic. It’s probably the best news we’ve had since the

start of the pandemic.

We have two vaccines that are making their way through the approval process

that may be as high as 95 percent effective and seemed to be safe based on

the information we’ve seen so far. Obviously, they need to go through the

usual FDA review process, and that’s going to begin now for one of the

vaccines and will begin shortly for the second.

But if it does get through that process and if they are reviewed by an

external scientific committee which has no stake in the outcome except for

the safety and effectiveness for Americans of these vaccines, then I will

have confidence in those vaccines. Of course, I want to know about others

from within the government, with a think about it, what Dr. Fauci think

about it, what other scientific authorities in FDA and CDC think about it.

But at this point I will have confidence in the vaccine, and if — if it

makes it through those processes and I think it will help us change the

course of this pandemic in the months ahead.

WALLACE:  Finally, and I need a quick answer here, the delayed transition –


WALLACE:  — President-elect Biden said today that people may die because

the Trump administration is not reading them in on vaccine distribution

issues for a seamless turnover on January 20th. But the president’s press

secretary, Kayleigh McEnany, said that the — that information is already

out there.

Take a look.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT:  We don’t have access to all the information

that we need to get from all the various agencies.


vaccination program, the interim playbook for jurisdiction operations. This

is publicly available if the former vice president would like to read

through it.


WALLACE:  Is McEnany right? Is the public playbook enough?

INGLESBY:  No, it’s not. I mean, there’s so much going on inside the

government to prepare — to respond to this pandemic and to prepare for it.

I think about it like a hospital taking care of many patients.

When a shift is leaving, the doctors and nurses who’ve been taken care of

all the sick patients, they spend time with the shift that is coming in.

They want to explain the details, what could go wrong, who’s been in


That’s the same thing that should be happening now. We should be going over

the details, the people who are leaving are going to need to take — need

to spend time with and explain in detail all the science and the data for

people who are coming in.

WALLACE:  Dr. Inglesby, thank you. Thanks again for your time and we wish

you a happy and safe Thanksgiving, sir.

INGLESBY:  Thanks so much, Chris, you too.

WALLACE:  Up next, we’ll bring in our Sunday group to discuss the politics

and policy of COVID-19, and the promise of vaccines that look to be on the




FAUCI:  If you’re fighting a battle and the cavalry is on the way, you

don’t stop shooting, you keep going until the cavalry gets here, and then

you might even want to continue fighting.


WALLACE:  Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease official,

urging Americans to continue best practices just a bit longer as we wait

for those COVID vaccines.

And it’s time now for our Sunday group — former Republican Congressman

Jason Chaffetz, former Democratic Congresswoman Jane Harman, director of

the Wilson Center, and Jonathan Swan from “Axios”.

Jonathan, is there any push inside the White House to begin a provisional

transition to read members of the Trump — of the Biden transition team in

on things like vaccine distribution just in case, or is that still regarded

as an act of disloyalty to President Trump and his effort to overturn



still regarded an act of disloyalty to President Trump and no one in his

circle has coercive power to that effect at this point. They are privately

distancing themselves from the Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, Jenna Ellis

legal effort which now asserts that there is an international criminal

communist conspiracy stretching from Venezuela to Cuba, involving hacking

into voting machines and switching millions of votes. That’s not a widely

accepted theory inside Trump’s inner circle.

Even some of his most hard-core loyalists staying the heck away from that,

but that doesn’t mean that they are sitting down with the president saying,

Mr. President, you have to concede and start doing transition. That’s not

happening to — as far as my reporting is concerned.

WALLACE:  Congressman Chaffetz, this week the governor of your state, of

Utah, issued a mask mandate for the first time. As we are seeing, and you

just heard Dr. Inglesby stay the spread of the virus is the worst that it’s

been by several measures, several multiples, 195 cases on Friday alone. Are

some conservatives beginning to rethink this issue of mandates and closures

and shutdowns?

JASON CHAFFETZ, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  Well, I think doing it state-by-

state does make sense. Utah early on in the process was not suffering a

major outbreak.

But I think the principle of personal decision-making, making sure that the

information is out there and that people take personal responsibility is

still core to what Republicans believe in. And, look, it was Donald Trump

and his administration very early in this process talked about the 15 days

to slow the spread into wash her hands vigorously, don’t touch your face,

wear a mask, and to be socially distant.

And I still think that those are viable — you know, that’s the way people

should go, but they also have to have some degree of personal

responsibility because in some of the most stringent places like New York,

they’ve seen some of the highest death rates. So we learned a lot, but

those are smart things to do. We should listen to the scientists.

WALLACE:  But, in — as I said, the Republican governor of the deeply red

state of Utah issued a mask mandate for the first time. Do you have a

problem with that?

CHAFFETZ:  Not — it’s not as deep as some of these other states. There was

a very strong recommendation, but it’s not so far as to say what Gavin

Newsom said in California to wear a mask and to put it back on in between

bites of food. That’s not what Governor Herbert said.

WALLACE:  No, he didn’t say that, he just said wear a mask when you can.

Congresswoman Harman, I want to talk to you about these two vaccines that

have now gone through the trial process and one of them at Pfizer is now

seeking emergency use authorization.

Here is the head of Pfizer.


ALBERT BOURLA, PFIZER CEO:  We are announcing that finally we are

submitting our application for emergency use authorization to the U.S. FDA.


WALLACE:  Doesn’t President Trump deserve credit, in fact a great deal of

credit, for Operation Warp Speed and this private partner — private-public

partnership which has resulted in two vaccines in less than ten months with

more on the way?

JANE HARMAN, FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN (D-CA):  Yes. I think he does. But let’s

understand that the pharma companies started ahead of Warp Speed to start

developing these vaccines and developed them in a brand-new way. So, yes,

he does.

Congress does too. Congress provided $10 billion in the CARES Act in March,

which give a jump-start to Moderna, which had virtually no ability to do

this. Pfizer did. Pfizer has been much more successful, robust company and

now they are both almost at the finish line.

But one more point, Chris. Developing a vaccine is great. Getting them in

people’s arms is the new challenge.

And I want President Trump to be first in line getting one of those

vaccines so that he can show millions of Americans who still think we need

to stop the steal that these are safe and efficacious because we won’t get

to the end of this unless we have a country where a huge number of people

are vaccinated.

WALLACE:  But, Jonathan, instead of celebrating the Pfizer announcement on

Friday, President Trump suggested that the company had actually held up its

announcement of the new vaccine until after the election.

Take a look at the president on Friday.



waited and they thought they’d come out with it a few days after the

election. And it would have probably had an impact, who knows, maybe it

wouldn’t have. I’m sure they would have found the ballots someplace, the



WALLACE:  Does the president really believe that big pharma was out to get

him and purposely in the case of Pfizer delayed this announcement because

he wants to lower drug prices?

SWAN:  Well, that would require sort of an MRI of his soul. I mean, I don’t

know whether he genuinely believes that. He certainly was saying it

privately to advisors in the lead up to election. He was watching these ads

hitting him from the pharmaceutical industry and he was making comments to

his aides that, oh, we are clearly doing something right, you know, they

are trying to get me.

And, you know, as one of his aides said to me, he sees everything through

the prison of his self. So, it’s completely in character for him to see

that announcement as all about him and trying to game the election.

WALLACE:  Congressman Chaffetz, last word here. And I need a pretty brief

last word.

Do you think it’s credible that Pfizer was playing politics here and

delaying the announcement of this vaccine, which is so important to the

country, so important to Pfizer, just to try to hurt the president’s

reelection chances?

CHAFFETZ:  I really don’t know, Chris, but it did come out just one week

after the election. I wish it had come out naturally when it was supposed

to. And — but most importantly I hope it helps and saves the lives of

millions of Americans.

WALLACE:  Well, I think that’s something that all of us can agree on.

Panel, we have to take a break here, but when we come back, how President-

elect Biden is proceeding facing resistance from the Trump White House and

pressure from the left. We’ll talk with a key member of the Biden team.

That’s next.


WALLACE:  Coming up, Donald Trump keeps fighting the election results in

court and delaying the transition.


BIDEN:  Incredibly damaging messages being sent to the rest of the world

about how democracy functions.


WALLACE:  We’ll ask a senior advisor to the president-elect, Kate

Bedingfield, how the Biden field to team is handling these challenges.


CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: President-elect Biden is expected to

announce key members of his cabinet this week, even as President Trump

keeps trying to overturn the election.

In a moment, we’ll speak with Kate Bedingfield, senior advisor to the Biden


But let’s begin with Jacqui Heinrich, who’s tracking the president-elect in




legal team says the system is working as recounts affirm Biden’s win. Cases

are tossed in courts, including a case in battleground Pennsylvania

yesterday and Michigan legislators are summoned to Washington in an

apparent bid to appoint faithless electors.


BOB BAUER, BIDEN LEGAL ADVISER: While the president and his allies are

ripping at the fabric of the democracy in any way they can, the fabric is

not tearing. It’s holding firm.

HEINRICH (voice over): Despite time lost coordinating with federal agencies

amid a public health and economic crisis, President-elect Joe Biden’s team

so far has not pursued legal action.


up considerably in my view. And, in the meantime, I — I am hopeful that

I’m going to be able to get cooperation from our Republican colleagues in

the Senate and the House.

HEINRICH: Instead, he’s forming his government amid calls for inclusion

from progressives and some criticism over his first hires.

JEN PSAKI, BIDEN TRANSITION ADVISER: I would encourage people to wait until

we’ve made even one announcement about a cabinet member and certainly more

than just a dozen White House names before they pass judgment.

HEINRICH: Biden’s also calling on states and Congress to do what he can’t

right now, including passing an emergency aid package to fight the pandemic

and repair the economy.

BIDEN: In my Oval Office, mi casa, you casa. I’m going to need that. I hope

we’re going to spend a lot of time together.


HEINRICH: Biden is expected to announce some cabinet nominees on Tuesday.

He’s already picked his choice to head up the Treasury and significantly

that name has not been leaked, Chris.

WALLACE: Jacqui Heinrich reporting from Wilmington.

Jacqui, thank you.

And joining us now, senior advisor to the Biden transition team, Kate


Kate, welcome back to FOX NEWS SUNDAY.


me, Chris.

WALLACE: Does the president-elect have any concerns whether or not

President Trump’s effort to overturn the election will succeed, and is he

reconsidering at all his decision not to go to court either, one, to

protect his victory in the election and, two, to try to force the

transition to begin?

BEDINGFIELD: No, he does not have any concern. I think what we’ve seen over

the course of the last few weeks are these lawsuits, these lawsuits from

the Trump campaign and their allies have been laughed out of court after

court all across the country. They are getting absolutely no traction.

We’ve seen the Republican governor and Republican secretary of state in

Georgia this week reaffirm the — the recount results there, reaffirm the

outcomes that Joe Biden won the state of Georgia.

Look, Joe Biden won the selection by 80 million votes. He won 306 Electoral

College votes, which is the same — the same outcome from 2016 that Donald

Trump called a landslide when he won 306 Electoral College votes.

So, no, we have absolutely no concern that this is going to have any

outcome on — on the election itself.

On your question about the transition and suing the GSA, I would say, look,

you know, litigation is not a panacea. It is not going to — to suddenly

move things forward. What will move things forward is the GSA administrator

signing the piece of paper, you know, the statute says that it is her

obligation to ascertain the apparent winner of the election.

I don’t think there’s anybody in the world who would suggest, except maybe

the folks around Donald Trump, that Joe Biden was not the apparent winner

of this election. Again, he won 306 Electoral College votes and 80 million

votes from Americans all across the country. So she should ascertain the

results of the election so that we can move forward with a seamless


WALLACE: Now, in his defense, President Trump argues that Democrats sought

to delegitimize his election from the very start, in pushing the idea that

there was a Russia collusion, pushing the Mueller investigation, even

impeaching him. The president says that your side has no right to complain

now when he is contesting this election.

BEDINGFIELD: That is, frankly, Chris, I think that is absurd. And that is

an apples and oranges comparison at best. What we’re talking about right

now is Donald Trump actively trying to overturn the will of the American

people state-by-state. And what we’re seeing across the board is that

courts across the country, governors and secretaries of state across the

country are rejecting that. They’re saying the — the election was fair. It

was legitimate. Joe Biden won by a handy margin. Again, a margin that

Donald Trump himself called a landslide in 2016. And we’re continuing to

see Republicans come out and acknowledge this as well. You know, Senator

Toomey made a statement yesterday acknowledging Joe Biden as the president-

elect and encouraging the transition to move forward. We’ve seen even

Donald Trump’s national security advisor Robert O’Brien has said that the

transition should move forward.

So I think all across the country Americans rose — rose up —

WALLACE: But — but what about the — but what about the argument that that

— but if I may, just what about the argument that Democrats were trying to

overturn the legitimate election of — of Donald Trump? Maybe not in — so

much in contesting the election, but the way they acted on a number of

fronts with investigations over the four years of his presidency?

BEDINGFIELD: I don’t think that when a president gets elected that he is no

longer held accountable as he moves through his administration. I think

that’s an incredibly different thing. I think investigations into whether a

president has behaved appropriately or not — or not are entirely — an

entirely different matter than what Donald Trump is trying to do here,

which is to — is to actively overturn the will of the American people, to

subvert the democratic system, to sow doubt about — about the foundations

of our democracy. That is a completely different thing. And it’s — look,

it’s a PR stunt. It’s a sideshow. I think you would only have to look at

Rudy Giuliani’s press conference a couple of days ago to appreciate that

this is not a serious, sophisticated effort. And, most importantly, it will

fail. It has failed, it’s continuing to fail, because, again, Joe Biden

overwhelmingly won this election, 306 Electoral College votes. The American

people voted for Joe Biden to be sworn in on January 20, 2021, and he will


WALLACE: Right. How many — we — we understand that the — it’s been

announced the president-elect is going to name some cabinet appointments on

Tuesday. How many, and which ones?

BEDINGFIELD: Well, I have been in this business long enough to know that I

am not going to get ahead of President-elect Biden and his announcement.

But you are right, we will be making our first cabinet announcements on

Tuesday of this week and, you know, I would say the president-elect is very

excited about this team and looks forward to introducing them to the


WALLACE: Can you even tell us a number, how many?

BEDINGFIELD: I can’t. I — everyone will have to just tune in on Tuesday

and we will — it will be made known then.


The president also — president-elect, and we — we showed it in — in

Jacqui’s piece, met with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer on Friday. And he

talked afterwards about he wants to see a COVID relief bill passed by the

lame duck Congress and the next couple of weeks. Can’t wait until January


Question, when is he going to meet with Senate Majority Leader Mitch


BEDINGFIELD: Well, he’s looking forward to doing that when the time is

right. Obviously, you know, he and Senator McConnell have had productive

working relationship in the past and he looks forward to — to meeting with

Senator McConnell when that moment — when that moment arrives.

But you’re absolutely right, he believes that we need to get a relief bill

done in the lame duck. People are hurting all over the country. People need

money in their pockets to make rent. They need money in their pockets to

afford groceries. Small businesses need that money. Teachers need that

money. Tough decisions about layoffs of firefighters and essential workers

are being made all over this country because Congress won’t move forward on

— on a package. So that is a priority for him. That is something that he’s

going to continue to push in the lame duck.

WALLACE: But — but, Kate — but, but, Kate, you — you can’t pass COVID

relief without the Senate majority leader. He is the majority leader in the

Senate, Mitch McConnell. Is the president-elect ready to meet with him now?

In other — I’m trying to get a sense, is it President-elect Biden whose

holding up the meeting or is it Mitch McConnell?

BEDINGFIELD: We strongly hope that Senator McConnell will come to the

table. I think if you look at where the Democrats have been across the

entire course of this year. You know, Democrats passed a bill back in May

and we’ve seen — we’ve seen obstruction from Republicans. So, obviously,

we are very helpful that Mitch McConnell will come to the table. It is

important. People are expecting it. You know, they voted for — in this —

in this election, they voted for action, they voted for progress and they

voted for some —

WALLACE: But just to — just to — just to press this, would — would Biden

meet — would — would Biden meet with McConnell right now?

BEDINGFIELD: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. It is important that

Senator McConnell come to the table.

WALLACE: So the holdup here —

BEDINGFIELD: And we’re — and we’re very hopeful — we’re very hopeful that

we’ll be able to see progress soon on this bill because people all across

the country desperately need it.

WALLACE: The — the president-elect is already taking heat from the — the

left wing of the Democratic Party. I want to play some of that, that we saw

this week.

Take a look.


REP. RASHIDA TLAIB (D-MI): We’re going to make sure that the Biden

administration sticks to our timeline, is moving towards our timeline. And

so I ask all of you, do not move from the needle. Do not.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): That’s what our next move is, is to

make sure that the Biden administration keeps its promise.


WALLACE: And Senator Bernie Sanders said it would be, quote, enormously

insulting if Biden ignored the progressive community.

So how much pressure does the president-elect feel to repay the left for

its support in this election?

BEDINGFIELD: Joe Biden was elected with an incredibly broad coalition of

voters and a broad coalition of support. That includes support from the

progressive wing of the party. That includes support from the more moderate

wing of the party. It included support from independents and Republicans. I

mean he won 80 million votes all across the country, an historic number of

votes for a president-elect.

So, look, we have every intention, I can tell you definitively, Joe Biden

is going to keep his promises. He is — he put — he laid out plans on this

campaign that are bold and that meet the crises that we’re facing. We’re

facing four incredibly overwhelming and historic crises in this country,

including the public health crisis and the economic crisis that goes with

it, in addition to the climate crisis and the racial injustice crisis that

we’re seeing in this country.


BEDINGFIELD: He campaigned on bold plans to tackle all of these crises that

he has every intention of keeping his promises.

WALLACE: Kate, thank you. Thanks for joining us. I hope you get at least

the day off for Thanksgiving, but I suspect it’s a busy time for you.

BEDINGFIELD: It is, but thank you very much for having me. I — I

appreciate being here, Chris.

WALLACE: Up next, our Sunday panel returns to discuss President Trump’s

ongoing effort to challenge the results of the 2020 election.




dollars of negative advertisements against me during the campaign, which I

won, by the way, but, you know, we’ll find that out. Almost 74 million

votes. We had big pharma against us. We had the media against us. We had

big tech against us.


WALLACE: President Trump, once again, claiming victory over Joe Biden and a

wide array of opponents.

And we’re back now with the panel.

Jonathan, the — the president and his legal team had a bad week in trying

to overturn the election, both in court and also in meetings with state

legislators and trying to get them to flip the electors that each state

will appoint.

Where does the president stand now in this effort to try to reverse the

results of the election?


actually see. I mean I just got a fundraising e-mail from the Trump

campaign assuring me that there is a path to victory and raising small

dollar donations from a bunch of Republican donors, small donors, many of

them elderly, telling them that there’s still a way to win.

I can’t see it and — and, frankly, when I talk to most of the president’s

senior advisors, but whether it be the campaign or the West Wing, they

can’t see it either. They’re not — they’re not saying that publicly, of

course, but that’s what they do say privately almost universally. They’re

trying several tracks. They’re trying litigation. They just got thrown out

of court in Pennsylvania. They’re trying sort of coercion with some of

these state legislatures, trying to get them to overturn the electors. And

then they’re doing a sort of macro — I don’t even know what you would call

it, but this is what I referred to earlier, this conspiracy theory that is

very hard to follow, but is being pushed by his — President Trump and his

legal team.

WALLACE: I’m — I’m going to pick up on — I’m going to pick up on that in

a second.

SWAN: Yes. OK. Sure.

WALLACE: But — but you — from everything you can see, the president is

still full speed ahead?

SWAN: Yes. Yes, I haven’t seen any sign that he’s pulling back. But, again,

I see no sign that there’s any plausible path forward.

WALLACE: Congressman Chaffetz, you are a loyal supporter of — of the

president, but I — I want to play, and the — this is what Jonathan was

referring to, a clip of one of the top members of his legal team this week.

Take a look.


SIDNEY POWELL, TRUMP ATTORNEY: What we are really dealing with here and

uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money

through Venezuela, Cuba, and likely China in the interference with our

elections here in the United States.


WALLACE: There is not, Congressman, a shred of evidence that any of that is


Do you have no concerns that this may be damaging the country?


have some concerns. I — it’s one thing to have a president — or to have a

press conference, but they do need to produce evidence. And, quite frankly,

the only ones that it matters are in front of a court. And so they’ve got

to prevail in a court. Supposedly, they’re going to be aggressive there in

— in the — in the state of Georgia. I do think there is evidence there. I

— to suggest that there’s no evidence I think it would be wrong.

And let me just add, Chris, (INAUDIBLE) —

WALLACE: But, wait, wait, wait. Wait, you think there — wait, Congressman,

you think there’s evidence of communist money pouring through Venezuela,

Cuba, and China to overthrow this election?

CHAFFETZ: No. No, I don’t. no, I don’t. even — even —

WALLACE: To turn — you know, to — to falsely elect Joe —

CHAFFETZ: No. No, but what I do — like, she even said likely China, but —

WALLACE: No, you don’t think there’s evidence?

CHAFFETZ: Well, I think there’s — you’re — you’re trying to lump it into

just one group. I’m just saying there are lots of fronts on which there are

some bits of evidence. But to suggest that there’s likely Chinese money

flowing through this, I don’t see any evidence of that. Even the attorney

is saying it — it might happen.

But the point I want to make here, Chris, is, continuity of government is

imperative. I do think the GSA should loosen up that money. Maybe the

president will prevail. Personally, I hope that they do. But if they don’t,

continuity of government is far too important, and that should happen.

WALLACE: Congresswoman Harman, I want to pull back on this just a little

bit because what the president is trying to do here, in — in a specific

case where he met with state legislatures, is trying to tie up states that

Biden won, their ability to name electors for Biden so that the state

legislatures, in places where they’re controlled by Republicans, could

actually certify Trump electors.

What do you make of all that?


it’s — they’re up to no good. I observed elections in about ten countries,

including Afghanistan and Chile and Ukraine and — and everywhere else over

the years, never expecting that my own country would set a bad example. In

fact, Richard Nixon, after he lost in 1960, when there was some credible

evidence of election fraud, unlike now, said that the transition had to

proceed because he didn’t want to set a bad example.

This is bogus. I’m a member of the 44 person National Council on Election

Integrity, equal Dems and — and Republicans, who say to a person that this

has to stop. And what’s — what he’s trying now, he’s absolutely failed in

terms of litigation strategy, is to blow up the Electoral College. And in

Michigan, again, there’s a request for a 14 day delay, which I hope will be

turned down, or I hope the governor, if she has to, she’ll replace a couple

of the electors and get this going.

But the point is to delay the vote through December 14th, which is when

it’s supposed to happen. And then, in some Hail Mary sense, throw this to

the House, where the election goes by state and there are 26 states that

have a majority Republican delegation. So he would technically win in the


I don’t think it will work. I think it’s past time to get on with the

transition. And I do think — I disagree totally with Kelly McEnany (ph) —


HARMAN: That there’s a handbook that Biden should be reading about this.

WALLACE: I’ve got less than a minute left, Jonathan. As I discussed with

Kate Bedingfield, the president-elect is getting some real heat from the

left now. We helped you win this election, now we want payback.

How much clout does the left have with the — President-elect Biden and his

transition, both in terms of policy and personnel?

SWAN: I think very little. They’ve, firstly, they tried to defeat him in

the primaries and they didn’t. And now they’re in a position where,

frankly, you’re looking at, unless they have a disaster in the Georgia

runoffs, a Republican-controlled Senate. So, you know, they can pass the

green new deal through the House or push for Elizabeth Warren at Treasury,

but good luck. Good luck getting any of that through Mitch McConnell’s


WALLACE: Thank you, panel. See you next Sunday and happy Thanksgiving to

all of you.

Up next our “Power Player of the Week,” the archbishop of Washington on

leading Catholics in the nation’s capital and about to make history once



WALLACE: This Saturday, Pope Francis will elevate 13 leaders of the

Catholic Church to the rank of cardinal. Among them, Washington Archbishop

Wilton Gregory, who will become the first black American to hold that

position. And he’s our “Power Player of the Week.”


WILTON GREGORY, CARDINAL-DESIGNATE: The past is real. It’s painful. But the

future is also possible and hopefully very positive.

I resolve to serve faithfully the spiritual needs of this local church.

WALLACE (voice over): Wilton Gregory has been the archbishop of Washington

for 18 months, and it’s been a painful time for Catholics here. In 2019,

longtime Cardinal Theodore McCarrick was defrocked after being found guilty

of sexual abuse.

WALLACE (on camera): How do you help parishioners and priests keep their

trust in the church?

GREGORY: I have to be a man who’s committed to telling people the truth, as

— as best as I know.

WALLACE: What do you say about the betrayal by Cardinal McCarrick?

GREGORY: I think it’s horrific. It was just a — an egregious betrayal of

trust that has deeply wounded this local church.

Do this in memory of me.

WALLACE (voice over): As soon as he took over, Gregory started talking to

parishioners and holding listening sessions with priests to discuss the

church scandals that have troubled all of them.

WALLACE (on camera): Have they tested your faith in the church as an


GREGORY: Chris, they haven’t tested my faith, they’ve tested my patience.

WALLACE (voice over): As head of the archdiocese in the nation’s capital,

Gregory has to deal with subjects beyond religion. He supports a path to

citizenship as part of comprehensive immigration reform at a time when

people crossing the border illegally is still highly charged.

GREGORY: Anyone who denigrates the people who seek a better future, a more

positive way of living for their family, to denigrate them is wrong.

WALLACE: Gregory was in sixth grade when he transferred from public to

parochial school. In short order, he decided to convert to Catholicism and

become a priest.

GREGORY: I thought about becoming a priest before I thought about becoming

a Catholic.

WALLACE (on camera): To be a priest, it would help — be helpful to be a


GREGORY: You said exactly what my own pastor said, that if you’re

interested in being a priest, we’ve got to take this step-by-step. You

can’t steal first base.

WALLACE (voice over): This week, Gregory will take an historic step,

becoming the first African-American cardinal in the U.S., the rank just

below the papacy in the Catholic Church.

When we spoke last year, Gregory said he was in no hurry for Pope Francis

to change the color of his vestments.

GREGORY: I think he would be very disappointed if he sent me here and I got

a bad case of scarlet fever. My first concern before I think about a color

that I might wear is to care for the people that are here right in front of



WALLACE: Due to the pandemic, Gregory arrived in Rome early so he could

quarantine for ten days before the ceremony next weekend.

And that’s it for today. Have a great week and a happy and safe

Thanksgiving and we’ll see you next FOX NEWS SUNDAY.


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