Tucker: We used to spend a lot of time worrying about scenarios like this

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This is a rush transcript for “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” on June 1, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST:  Good evening, and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT. I hope you had the best weekend. 

If you’re a middle-aged American, and some of us are, you can probably still dimly remember back to what things used to be like in this country say 13 or 14 months ago. Way back then, before the revolution, pretty much everybody agreed that segregation was the worst thing this country ever did. 

Forcing certain categories of citizens into separate lesser accommodations barring them from public places, treating them like lepers or untouchables, that was completely immoral and wrong. We were told that a lot and most of us strongly agreed, it was wrong. 

So imagine our confusion today looking at across the country. The very same people, literally the very same, who just the other day told us that segregation was immoral are now enforcing segregation. Should we be surprised? Probably not, but we still are. 

Just this morning, “The New York Times” informed us that unless you can prove you have taken the injection that the Democratic Party demands you take, you are no longer permitted in bars, comedy clubs, even some dance competitions in the State of New York, you’re too dirty to appear in public. You’re not welcome near normal people. 

You want to watch the NBA playoffs in person? You had better be vaccinated to do that. Otherwise, the New York Knicks will bar you from Madison Square Garden. 

You can still go see a baseball game if you want to. But be warned, you will be sitting in your own roped off section marinating in your shame with the other disobedient bad people. 

Medical Jim Crow has come to America. If we still had water fountains, the unvaccinated would have separate ones. But wait, you ask, is this logical? 

Does it make sense? Why would people who’ve had the vaccine fear being near people who haven’t had the vaccine? Aren’t the vaccinated protected? Isn’t that whole point of getting the shot? Sure. Well, maybe from a health perspective, that is technically true, if you want to be precise about it, but it’s clearly not about health or science. It’s bigger than that. 

It’s about good and evil. It’s about discovering who is a decent person, and who by contrast, deserves to be punished for sin. It’s about finding out who has obeyed. And thankfully, once again, technology is coming to the rescue. Watch. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over):  It’s called the ImmunaBand. The Denver physician says it’s the first of its kind on the market. It costs $19.99. 

And it’s simple to use. 

After buying it, you send a copy of your vaccination card, and they’ll load it to their encrypted server. If someone wants to verify your vaccine record, all they’ve got to do is take a picture of the QR code on their phone, and it’ll take them to that website. 


CARLSON:  It’s easy. It’s got a QR code. You just send a copy of your vaccination card, just show your papers and then you can participate in the life of your country. In New York, the state is doing this by itself. It’s issuing something called the Excelsior Pass. The Excelsior Pass entitles you to all the rights and freedoms you imagine you were born with, but that turned out to be entirely contingent on whether you do exactly what Andrew Cuomo says to do immediately. 

Officials in New York have assured us the Excelsior Pass is totally safe. 

It’s every bit as safe as a state licensed nursing home, and it is utterly confidential. It’s a lockbox. Your personal health information cannot be hacked by anyone apart of course from hackers, people who actually try to hack it. 

Last month for example, a man called Albert Fox Cahn broke into the Excelsior Pass in just 11 minutes. But other than that, you’re completely fine. So more than a million people have downloaded the Excelsior Pass so far, and that’s a victory for public health. 

But it does make you wonder, is this the end or is it the beginning? Why should it end here? The coronavirus is transmissible and it can be dangerous. But it’s hardly the only illness that fits that description, there are many. 

So if politicians can segregate potential COVID carriers from the rest of the American population, why can’t they do the same thing to people with HIV or tuberculosis or hepatitis C? 

Before you laugh off the possibility of that happening, see if you can answer the core question: why wouldn’t that happen? And of course at this point, there really isn’t a reason that it wouldn’t happen because the precedent has been set. 

And by the way, say goodbye to those HIPAA protections you thought you had. 

It used to be illegal to demand people’s confidential medical information. 

Not anymore. What’s illegal now is trying to hide it. The F.B.I. is warning of, quote, “severe penalties” for anyone who dares to forge a vaccine card, so don’t even think about it. 

Now, we used to spend quite a bit of time worrying about scenarios like the one we’re living through right now. Back in 2003, for example, a Federal Judge in Washington ruled that the government cannot force an unapproved vaccine on its citizens. At the time, the Defense Department wanted to inoculate soldiers serving in Iraq against anthrax. Some soldiers didn’t want it. DoD tried to make them take it. 

And then the Judge, Emmet Sullivan stepped in. He said this, quote: “Absent an informed consent or presidential waiver, the United States cannot demand the members of the Armed Forces serve as guinea pigs for experimental drugs,” end quote. He was not attacked for that. In fact, at the time, Judge Sullivan’s ruling was seen as a victory for civil liberties. 

How would it be seen now? Well, it would be seen, in fact, it would be denounced as a win for QAnon. Because make no mistake, the only people who have not been vaccinated at this point are Trump voters and other dangerous white supremacists, because they’re the only ones evil enough to threaten this nation’s public health. 

We’ve learned that repeatedly on television. Here’s an example. 


BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT:  And now, the narrative has entirely changed and it’s about Republicans, mostly men, so white male Republicans who don’t want to get the shot. 

DR. SEEMA YASMIN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST:  Brian, there is no group in America more likely to say, no, I am not going to get the COVID vaccine than white Republican men. 

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Why don’t they want it, these white men who by and large were Trumpers? 

DR. KAVITA PATEL, PRACTICING PHYSICIAN:  There is the kind of, you know, Republican, white men who seem to take pride in it about refusing this vaccine. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It’s also dangerous. I mean, we know that the vaccine hesitancy rates are rising amongst white Republican men. There actually is very little vaccine hesitancy at the moment between African-Americans and Latino communities. 


CARLSON:  Yes, you’re not surprised. It’s always the same people. It is those white Republican men, the very ones that just today Joe Biden warned us are more dangerous than ISIS. These are the people who have been beating up elderly Asian women in our cities, you’ve seen that plague unfold. These are the ones who don’t believe in science, who have no decency. They are the problem. 

Just the other day, Joe Biden’s grumpy little flack told us that she had found new ways to reach these recalcitrant mouth breathers. 


JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY:  We’ve run PSA’s on “The Deadliest Catch.” We’re engaged with NASCAR and Country Music TV, we’re looking for a range of creative ways to get directly connected to white conservative communities. 


CARLSON:  It’s the white men again, but not just any white men, it is the one who likes country music and NASCAR, not the ones who go to Aspen. The white Republican men are dangerous, and they can sit at the back of the bus. In fact, they can walk. They shouldn’t even be allowed in public buildings. 

That’s a story you keep hearing. You just heard it in very clear terms. No group in America is more likely to turn down the vaccine than quote, “white Republican men.” We’ve heard that so many times that just the other day, we decided to check the number because not all the numbers you hear even from the podium at the White House are true. 

So here are the real numbers as collected by the U.S. government. Well, look at that, it turns out and we know you’re shocked, they are lying again. In fact, what they are saying is the opposite of the truth. As of two weeks ago, 50 percent of Asian-Americans had been vaccinated against COVID. That number among white Americans was about 40 percent. Among African-Americans, it was 27 percent, among Hispanics, it was 29 percent. 

So this has implications. If we’re going to make the quote “unvaccinated” 

sit in their own unfashionable little section at MLB games, that’s going to make for some pretty embarrassing photographs sometime soon. Because it seems like the new segregation looks a lot like the old segregation. And we wonder how they’re going to explain that. Can’t wait to hear it. 

In the meantime, we’re happy to be joined for an assessment of all of this by our friend, Candace Owens. Candace, great to see you. I am sorry to laugh. It’s a serious subject. I think there are all kinds of important implications for civil liberties going forward, as noted. 

But once you check their numbers on almost any claim, it turns out not simply to be off by a standard deviation, but it is like the inverse of the reality every time. 

CANDACE OWENS, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR:  You’re absolutely right. And I’m so glad that you’re talking about medical segregation, because there’s something really important that I want to say. So often, hindsight is 2020. 

You look back and you say: I don’t understand how people living at that time allowed these atrocities to take place. I don’t understand how people living during the time of Jim Crow allowed atrocities to take place based off of the color of people’s skin. 

Well, Tucker, we’re living in those times right now, people don’t actually recognize that. We are living right now in a time where you have an entire ecosystem of people that are telling you discrimination is okay. And by the way, it is always the same characters that forces discrimination. It’s always a government that say it is okay. It’s always the media that says it’s okay. 

The media is making fun and saying, you know what, this is fine. This is an acceptable kind of discrimination. It was the same during the era of Jim Crow. 

Most people don’t know this, but “The New York Times,” for example, back in the day when “The New York Times” was printing articles talking about the Ku Klux Klan, they’re referred to them as amiable, the friendly Ku Klux Klan met again at this event. They made it seem as though there was something fundamentally wrong with black Americans. They were dumber, they were dirtier, and they deserve this treatment. 

This is exactly what they’re doing again, years later. They are reintroducing the same type of propaganda to convince people that this form of discrimination, it’s actually okay. You need this. It’s for your safety. 

It’s always for your safety and they do this across many other societies. 

They’ve done this always, and right now, the Democrats are at the helm. 

Jen Psaki is implicated here. Joe Biden is implicated here. Right now, we have an administration that is reintroducing segregation again in this country under the guise of medical safety. 

CARLSON:  And it has nothing to do with medical safety, of course, because people who have been vaccinated are by their own logic, safe. They’re not going to get infected. They’ve been vaccinated. 

A hundred million Americans, thereabout, have recovered from the virus and have active antibodies. They’re not carriers, they’re not getting get it themselves. So if you were going by the science, you — I mean, none of these laws or regulations would even occur to you. 

OWENS:  Yes, that’s exactly right. But also don’t forget, Tucker, that science is always convenient. The government always uses science like a tool. During the Progressive Era, it was science that taught you that black Americans were dumber than white Americans. It was scientific. They had proved it scientifically that black Americans are dumber and therefore, they did not want blacks and whites breeding, and segregation therefore was a must in society. 

They manipulate society when they want to discriminate a certain group of people. Right now, they are bent on discriminating against Trump supporter, discriminating against conservatives, even with lies not even looking at the actual numbers. And you are correct to assess that black people are extremely hesitant about the vaccine, for good reason. 

The government has lied to black people a lot in the past, so they are not trusting the government. They’re not trusting the science that seems to change every couple of days, depending on what Dr. Fauci is feeling like in the morning. 

CARLSON:  Why does no one say that? I mean, if 27 percent of African- Americans have been vaccinated, which is to say 73 percent haven’t, if half the C.D.C. and N.I.H. employees haven’t been vaccinated. If you really wanted to vaccinate the whole population, you would make the pitch to them, you wouldn’t use this opportunity to attack and demonize your political enemies. This has nothing to do with politics, does it? I mean, the point is to divide. 

OWENS:  That’s exactly right. It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with politics. From the very beginning, COVID-19 has been used as a political tool by the left to go after their enemies, to radically introduce change in this country, and in my opinion, to create a totalitarian system of full and utter government control under Joe Biden and the Democrats. 

We have seen this over and over again, trying to change election laws. I mean, there’s so many things we can talk about here. But what we’re talking about today is dangerous. We are talking about segregation. 

So people need to get on board and realize, we are living in that time right now. You watching this, you have a decision to stand up right now and say, I don’t care how I feel about my neighbor. This is wrong. There should not be segregating exceptions for people at any sporting event or anywhere else in this country. 

CARLSON:  That’s right, show us your blood test. And lots of people have — plenty of people, I know have been vaccinated. If you’re asked, what’s your vaccine status? I think the appropriate response is “Up yours.” You know, in principle, don’t answer that question. Why would you? 

Candace Owens, great to see you. Thank you so much. 

OWENS:  Thank you. 

CARLSON:  So every time you dig into the numbers, you learn something really, really surprising. And so it’s worth looking at the actual numbers, not the lies they’re telling you. 

Here’s a number worth looking at. Who’s getting rich from the vaccines? We have some new information on that tonight. FOX’s Trace Gallagher has the story for us. Hey, Trace. 



Tucker, the math here is pretty basic. Pharmaceutical companies like Moderna and BioNTech have seen their stock prices explode over the past year for two reasons. One, investors believe their vaccine profits will be enormous and two, the companies have monopoly control over vaccine production, so the profit streams will continue to be enormous. 

As a result of vaccines, we have now nine brand new billionaires and five of them are associated with Moderna, including CEO, Stephane Bancel and Chairman Noubar Afeyan. Three other Moderna early investors are also now billionaires. BioNTech CEO and cofounder, Ugur Sahin, is also on the list along with three founders of the Chinese vaccine company CanSino Biologics. 

And on top of the nine new billionaires, the vaccines gave eight existing billionaires an additional $32 billion to mess around with. 

All told, the new and old billionaires took in about $51 billion. The People’s Vaccine Alliance says that is enough to vaccinate everyone in India, as well as an additional 800 million people in low-income countries that have so far gotten a very small share of the vaccine supply. 

Critics also point out the vaccines were largely financed by taxpayer money and say the company should end monopolies to help boost production. The German company, BioNTech says it took a risk by spending billions in private money and deserves to be rewarded — Tucker. 

CARLSON:  Trace Gallagher, thanks so much for that. 


CARLSON: Meanwhile, the entire American news media, NBC News, CNN have become pitchmen for the pharma companies. Have you noticed that? Pretty amazing. 

Well, the State of New York has announced a criminal investigation into the former President of the Trump Organization that he ran. Donald Trump, Jr. 

is here next to give us the very latest on that and to respond to those charges. 

Plus, it is now fashionable to claim that there are no differences between men and women. It’s just exactly the same. Just clay in our hands. We are god. 

Ron DeSantis has just signed a law defending biological reality, nature itself. The Governor of Florida joins us straight ahead. 


CARLSON:  New York is maybe the most corrupt place in this country. Yet, what don’t you see very often or maybe ever in New York, politicians getting indicted for public corruption. It happens occasionally. Not very often, though. 

And yet, as soon as she was elected Attorney General of New York, Letitia James promised that she would investigate the Trump Organization. At the time, she didn’t identify a crime that she alleged they committed. She went forward anyway. 

Now, she has confirmed she has started a criminal probe into the former President’s business deals and she still has not yet identified a crime. 

Donald Trump, Jr. is the Executive Vice President of the Trump Organization. He joins us tonight. Don, thanks so much for coming on. What is this investigation about, do you think? 

DONALD TRUMP, JR., EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATION:  I think everyone has been trying to figure that out for five years. I think it’s a political persecution, and I know that because she literally campaigned on it. 

She was going to investigate the crimes. The problem is it wasn’t as though she was a part of this office, she had no idea. 

But in New York, it’s okay to try to persecute your political enemies, to try to target them, to try to hurt them. And they’ve been doing that for over five years. So five years, no actual crime. They are in search of a crime. They’ve been trying to investigate to create a crime because that’s what you’re doing in New York. 

Again, shouldn’t surprise us anymore. But if this was going on in a banana republic, we’d be outraged. When it’s going on and one of the largest states in America, everyone seems to be silent on it. And there’s plenty of video out there for people to see, it was literally a campaign promise based on no information, based on no actual knowledge, just that you can do that in New York because it’s a Democrat-controlled state. 

There’s nowhere you can go. There’s no one you can appeal to because what you end up with is another leftist judge making the decision and they’re just fine going after their political enemies as well. 

CARLSON:  So you don’t like a politician. He leaves office and then you hamstring him, threaten him with prison, force him to rack up millions in legal bills. Is there precedent for this? Have we done this to former Presidents that you’re aware of at any time in American history? 

TRUMP, JR.:  You know, I’m not — that doesn’t surprise me. I think Donald Trump has sort of, you know, the Trump derangement syndrome has brought out the worst in all of the other side. But it is unprecedented. And again, it’s going on in America today. 

And I think what people have to understand, if you can go after a former President, target them for years; imagine what they could do to the regular person. We’ve seen sort of the corruption at the highest levels of the F.B.I. over the last few years. You’ve seen them target, you know, anyone who was anywhere even remotely near the East Coast on January 6 is being targeted. 

But people who have burned down buildings, who have taken over buildings, who have looted, committed arson, committed murder for the 12 months prior

— total pass. They’re not interested. 

This is what’s going on. The entire system has been corrupted, and what’s worse is that there is no way to appeal it. There is no way to stop the nonsense. 

In New York, crime is going through the roof. Taxes are going to go through the roof. Property values are going down. Murder rates are skyrocketing. 

And yet, rather than using taxpayer dollars to actually go and solve those issues to prevent the degeneration of New York even further, they’re going to continue to spend those taxpayer dollars targeting their enemies and that’s pretty disgusting and I think the taxpayer should be aware of that. 

I’ve seen what’s happened in New York City, I left for a reason. It’s not a good scenario. And when I know a lot of the guys that are big taxpayers in this city, they’re fleeing for places like I did to Florida for a much better standard of living, for a lot less taxes, for a lot less nonsense. 

The New York taxpayer has to be asking the question, why are you wasting my taxpayer dollars on this rather than again, solving the uncontrolled homicide that’s going on? The devaluation of real estate, et cetera et cetera. 

CARLSON:  People want the rule of law, and when the chief law enforcement officer promises to prosecute a crime she can’t describe, then you realize this is not a system based on law. It’s a system based on political grudges. 

TRUMP, JR.:  A hundred percent. And that’s part of the problem, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  Donald Trump, Jr., thanks so much. 

TRUMP, JR.:  Even if they don’t get anything, they get you to spend millions of dollars and that’s sort of a win in and of itself, and it’s tens of millions of dollars. 

CARLSON:  And you’ve got no choice. I appreciate you coming on to explain that. Thank you. 

TRUMP, JR.:  Thank you. 

CARLSON:  So in one of the biggest cities in the country, we’ve just learned that police are no longer allowed to chase criminals. What are the implications of that policy? 

James Craig ran the police department in Detroit and ran it well for a long time. He just stepped down. He joins us next for his first interview since leaving office. 


CARLSON:  About two months ago, on March 29th, at about 2:00 a.m. on Chicago’s West Side, residents reported hearing a series of gunshots. They called the police, and the police came. 

When they got there, body cam footage showed later, a 13-year-old boy called Adam Toledo started running. Shortly after, he pulled out a gun and started to toss it behind a fence. In that instance, the pursuing officer fired one shot and killed Adam Toledo. So, it was a tragedy of course. But that moment, Adam Toledo’s death raised a lot of important questions. 

For example, why is a boy who is barely a teenager out in the middle of the night on a city street with a handgun? Where are his parents? But no one in charge of the City of Chicago seemed interested in any way in exploring that or any related question. How do you get a society like that? Nobody cared. 

Instead, they decided on a new policy, a quick fix. They banned the police from chasing people like Adam Toledo. That’ll fix it. 

Chicago’s Police Department announced the policy in a Twitter post last week, quote: “There will be specific prohibitions to foot pursuits. Chicago Police will not pursue for an offense less than a Class A misdemeanor.” 

So what does that mean exactly? What crimes qualify as quote, “less than a Class A misdemeanor”? Well, it turns out a lot of crimes. You can free flee from the police. No problem. At most, that’s disorderly conduct, a less serious Class B misdemeanor. You can also steal someone’s purse right in front of a police officer. You can mug a woman, as long as there’s less than $400.00 in that purse, you cannot be pursued. 

You can trespass on to private property. You can bash a store window. You can commit assault. You can do a lot of things to degrade and destroy society and there is nothing that police can do to you if you run away.

It’s a huge change and it is going to change Chicago profoundly. 

So how did local media cover this? Well, they just lied about it. NBC Chicago, for example reported that the policy quote, “Prohibits foot chases stemming from minor traffic offenses.” That’s not true. The Associated Press said exactly the same thing, quote, “The new policy prohibits foot pursuits for minor traffic violations.” 

But again, that’s a lie. This policy has nothing to do with minor traffic violations. It’s a whole category of crime, some of which are serious, and it protects the people who commit them. And that’s why officials in the City of Chicago established a lot of other restrictions on foot pursuits last week. Too many obstacles in the way? No foot chase allowed. 

Does the suspect have a broken arm? You can’t chase him. 

And on it goes. By the way, if police officers violate any part of this policy, they can be fired. But if police decide not to chase criminal suspects, no one says a word. So do you think there will ever be a foot pursuit again? No, of course not, and that’s the point. If there are no foot chases, there is no body camera footage and there’s no controversy, just more crime. 

And if there’s no footage from body cams, that means people who don’t live in Chicago won’t know the condition of the city, which is grave. They won’t know that 13-year-old boys are out carrying guns in the middle of the night. 

So Chicago’s leaders haven’t solved the problem, but they have succeeded in burying the problem. They’re just hoping you won’t notice. 

There are city officials in other cities who have been honest about crime and what it takes to stop it. James Craig is one of them. He was the longtime Chief of Police in Detroit. He is reportedly at this point considering a run for Governor of Michigan. This is his first interview since he left the Detroit Police Department. He joins us tonight. 

Chief, thanks so much for coming on. So if — 

JAMES CRAIG, FORMER DETROIT CHIEF OF POLICE:  Thanks, Tucker for having me on your show. 

CARLSON:  So if a mugger takes — oh, well, we’re honored, as always — if a woman is mugged and she has got less than 400 bucks in her purse, police can’t chase the mugger. What do you think that will do to Chicago or any city with that policy? 

CRAIG:  It is ridiculous, Tucker. It is absolutely — it is absurd. I’ve been in this business 44 years. I can’t tell you how many individuals I’ve chased on foot to stop a violent crime, and now, they want to micromanage when you can chase is absurd. And we’re now moving into an area to protect a criminal. 

But we never talk about, Tucker, what about the victims? What about the people that live in vulnerable communities who happen to be mostly persons of color? It is shameful. It is shameful. And I’ve got to tell you, here in Detroit, they want us to do our job. 

CARLSON:  So that was my next question. What do you think people who live in neighborhoods where there’s a fair amount of crime, or in some cases, a lot of crime? What do you think they think of this? 

CRAIG:  They think it’s ridiculous. They want you to do your job. You know, when I got — when I got appointed Chief eight years ago, you know, people were sick and tired of crime and that the police were demoralized. And so we went in and very effectively and assertively took back our streets. We were throwing parties. That’s what people want. As long as you do it constitutionally, treat people with dignity and respect and we do that — 

CARLSON: Right. 

CRAIG:  But this madness, you know what, I’ve got to tell you, Tucker, I was in Chicago three weeks ago, met up with a couple of police officers and said, Chief, we wish you would be our chief. I said, well, that’s nice, but your Mayor would probably fire me within five minutes. She is not going to want to embrace the type of policing I believe in. And I’m talking about constitutional policing that makes members of our communities feel safe. 

This is ridiculous, Tucker, and where we are headed, we’re in trouble. And the folks that talk about, well, you know, we don’t want police to come in communities and make arrests, we want to let violent offenders out of jail. 

The Judges as it stands right now, in Detroit, we are locking up violent felons who are armed with weapons. And they laugh at our police officers. 

We are going to say, well, I’d be out before you get off your shift. That’s why we have no violent crime. If you want to know why these cities are having violent crimes, Tucker, it is because of one thing, the Judges are embracing this bail reform and in that, using commonsense, I’ll say it and I’ve continued to say it is wrong. They’re public servants, just like I was. 

I’m accountable to the people. What about the prosecutors? What about the victims? Who is talking to the victims, Tucker? Not one person. It’s sad. 

It’s our profession is in a crisis. 

CARLSON:  A small number of people commit an overwhelming percentage of the crime, and if they’re out on the street, then you’re going to have a lot of crime. It sounds like that’s what you’re saying. 

CRAIG:  Absolutely. And what I’m suggesting is, talk to the victims, talk to families, make reasonable commonsense decisions on who should be allowed out. Right now, I’m told there are 13 individuals who are charged with premeditated murder out walking the streets of Detroit, shameful. 

And it’s not just Detroit, when you look at all these cities, talk about New York, talk about Chicago. This is across. So who are we supporting? The criminals. And then ACLU comes out against me and say well, Chief, you got it wrong. No, you live in a gated community. You’re not dealing with what people who live in vulnerable communities, they want the police — bottom line. I talk to these folks. And you know what? It’s not over for me, Tucker. It’s not over. I’m going to continue to fight for our men and women who serve, it’s not over for me. 

CARLSON:  I hope you run for governor. I hope you beat your current governor badly. We’ll be rooting for you. 

James Craig of Detroit. Great to see you. Thank you. 

CRAIG:  Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you. 

CARLSON:  Thank you. Well, several states and many school districts have decided to deny that there is any biological difference between men and women. The Governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis has taken a major step to defend science, nature and reality. He joins us next to explain what he’s done. 


CARLSON:  Today, the Governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis signed a bill protecting women and girls in the state from having to compete with biological men on the athletic field. He made the announcement on stage with student athletes from a Jacksonville school called Trinity Christian Academy. At the event, an athlete who has been on this show Selina Soule spoke about her experience. Listen. 


SELINA SOULE, HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETE:  It’s very frustrating and demoralizing because it’s not fair being forced to compete against somebody who is biologically male, because no matter what, you will never be able to beat them. 

And I’ve raced against these athletes over a dozen times, and every single time I lost by a significant margin. 

They have a great advantage over us in terms of skeletal system and muscle mass. But in times in the 100-meter dash, they would finish and us, girls were still at the 80-meter mark. It’s not — I mean, it’s not a close race at all. 

I mean, it goes with science that males have a great physical advantage over females and saying that science isn’t a factor in this issue is wrong. 


CARLSON:  Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida joins us tonight. Governor, thanks so much for coming on. 

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): Good evening. 

CARLSON:  We’ve seen bills like this in a bunch of different states come before Republican governors who don’t sign them because they came under corporate pressure not to sign them. How much corporate pressure did you come under not to sign this bill? 

DESANTIS:  Well, it was interesting, Tucker, I think as these bills were going through various legislators, I remember the NCAA put out a statement saying that any state that enacts this, we’re not going to hold events there. And so I called the Speaker of the House in Florida. And I said, did you hear what they said? He’s like, yes, I said, we definitely have got to get this done yet can’t be cowed by these organizations or particularly by woke corporations from doing the right thing. 

And so my view was throughout this whole time, we have to protect our girls. It is discriminatory to force them to compete against biological males. And so if the price of having a tournament is that I have to deny equal opportunity to hundreds of thousands of young girl and women athletes throughout Florida, I am much more willing to stand with the girls and to hell with these events. 

CARLSON:  I think it’s a really a great point and you listen to the athletes, and it’s — you know, they’re at the 80 meter mark when the race is already won, and they’re the top female runners in the state. I mean, it’s ridiculous. Do you expect that — 

DESANTIS:  And Selina made the point today —   

CARLSON:  Please, go ahead. 

DESANTIS:  Selina made the point today, she missed New England regionals by two places. In those two places ahead of her were biological males. So she did everything that she could, she put herself in the position. And had they had fair competition, she would have advanced, she could have advanced in her career. 

Some of the — a lot of these women are going to have opportunities to play in college, some of them get college scholarships. But even short of that, these are enjoyable experiences they will remember for the rest of their lives, and just think how you feel to basically get cheated out of a victory. 

CARLSON:  It is so unfair and we shouldn’t — we shouldn’t tolerate it. You haven’t. Do you expect to be punished? Do you expect your state to be punished for this? 

DESANTIS:  No, actually, I don’t think so, Tucker, because I think what I think we’ve shown not just with this, but you know, we did a strong election integrity bill in Florida, actually stronger than Georgia and we just made it clear, we’re standing with our folks, we’re going to do the right thing. 

And so if corporations want to come in and try to bully us around, they are going to go nowhere. It’s going to be like hitting their head against a brick wall. The result has been, we’ve had very little to do with that elections bill. And I don’t think we’re going to have very much to do at this point here because we leaned into it and we stood strong. 

CARLSON:  Yes, if they know they can’t push you around, they don’t even try. That’s a really good point. I hope you inspire other governors. 

Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida, thank you very much. 

DESANTIS:  Thanks, Tucker. 

CARLSON:  So one of the main reasons we know as much about UFOs and know as much about what The Pentagon knows about UFOs is because of a man called Lue Elizondo, who used to run the Pentagon’s UFO program. He’s gone public about this, as you know, if you watch this show. Now, he says The Pentagon is launching a smear campaign against him. 

He joins us to explain what’s going on next. 


CARLSON:  One of the main reasons that sane people are now capable of talking about UFOs without being laughed at is because of a man called Lue Elizondo. Thirteen years ago, Elizondo was assigned to lead a Pentagon program that investigated this phenomenon, whatever it is. 

Since leaving employment with the U.S. government, Elizondo has gone public about some of what he knows about UFO sightings. Again, he has made this current conversation possible. 

Now, Elizondo has filed a complaint with The Pentagon’s Inspector General, and in that complaint, he says The Pentagon is waging a coordinated disinformation campaign to smear him for talking about this subject. 

Lue Elizondo joins us tonight. Lue, thanks so much for coming on. 

LUE ELIZONDO, FORMER PENTAGON OFFICIAL:  Tucker, always a pleasure. 

CARLSON:  What do you believe the Pentagon — thank you — what are they doing to you and why? 

ELIZONDO:  Well, there are certainly pockets of resistance within The Pentagon. And my concern is that they’re not being forthcoming with the American people about the reality of the program, the findings of the program, my role in the program, and frankly, the importance of this topic from a national security perspective. 

I think the concern for me is that there’s a lot of information that still has to see the light of day, and they are obfuscating the truth. And more importantly, they may be doing it to Congress, which is a whole another level of deception, of course, if that is indeed the case. 

CARLSON:  Yes, and it’s also illegal. They’re required by law, to release this information to the Congress and to the public. When can we expect that and how convinced are you about withholding critical information from that report? 

ELIZONDO:  Yes, two things with that, Tucker. That report can come out any day, probably anytime between next week and June 25th. Hopefully, the report is what Congress expects, and frankly, what Congress deserves. But I’ll tell you something of equal importance that I think our friends in Congress should probably be aware of, and that is the Public Affairs Office right now in the United States Pentagon is obfuscating, and more importantly, interfering with the Freedom of Information Act process that is something that is in law. 

So I think that’s something every American should be concerned with. 

CARLSON:  Yes, it’s illegal, among other things and wrong. What specifically do you worry they will omit from this report? 

ELIZONDO:  Well, in the program ATIP that I was part of, we looked at a lot of things, primarily as most people know, the UAP or the Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon topic and more importantly, the incursions into us airspace. There’s a lot of data, Tucker out there. 

And I mean, there’s a lot and I have to be very careful what I say. But I think, if just some of that information comes to light. You know, one thing people look at the Nimitz incident, they look at the Roosevelt, they look at the kid in the Omaha and they say, well, you know, those are anecdotal, those are, you know, events that occurred every so often. 

But I think Americans would be really surprised to know that these events are continuing to literally last week, they’re happening all the time. 

CARLSON:  And you worry that the report will underplay that as a kind of seaway move from DoD. 

ATIP Look, we can laugh all day long about the topic of UFOs or UAPs, but the bottom line is, you have objects that are coming unimpeded into U.S. 

airspace, controlled U.S. airspace. And I know some politicians think it’s a laughing matter. But at the end of the day, we have controlled us airspace over Washington, D.C. for a very specific reason. 

If it’s nobody’s concern, then why are we spending millions of dollars protecting the airspace when they things have had the ability to fly unimpeded in those airspaces? More importantly, you have men and women in uniform, brave men and women in uniform that are reporting these things. 

And for some reason, there are some people in, I guess, politics who don’t think it’s such a big deal. 

CARLSON:  Last question, do you think if DoD does keep this information from the Congress and from the public, that some within the Defense Department will leak it, will tell us what they’re hiding? 

ELIZONDO:  You know, I never condone leaking. I still have my security oath and that’s something I would never encourage anybody to do. I think there’s a right way to do this. And I think so far as to have the conversation the way we’ve been having it and use the Inspector General process to our advantage, it is there for a reason. 

And the I.G. is there to conduct an evaluation and a fair assessment. 

Hopefully they do that. I have faith and confidence in the fine men and women that are in the I.G. shop. So let’s hope that they do what they’re supposed to do and they do the right thing. 

CARLSON:  I hope you’re right. We’ll see you soon, I suspect. Lue Elizondo, thanks a lot. 

ELIZONDO: Pleasure. As always, thanks. 

CARLSON:  That’s it for us tonight. The latest episode of “Tucker Carlson Today” is out right now featuring an interview with Gerald Posner, a long conversation about the opioid epidemic and the people responsible for it. 

That’s on foxnation.com. 

We will see you tomorrow night. Have a great evening. 

Sean Hannity takes over now. 

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